You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. Clients such as law enforcement officers whose negligent discharges could result in their being disciplined or fired unless it can be proven that the gun was at fault. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. Here is a movie that he filmed 40 years ago and he was still raking it in. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. how do I get one for my P320? Its a novelty, its got issues! Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. At least the Lion roars when he is hungry, the C.E.O smiles at you and when you turn your back he puts a knife right into it. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. . . I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. (It wasnt my gun). They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. Harrison stated that, I have not seen enough to convince me that the upgraded version is dangerous., When ABCs David Scott asked Harrison if its a mystery whats going wrong with the updated version though Harrison had just stated the upgraded pistol isnt dangerous Harrison said, I do not have an explanation for why the updated version should have complaints from trained individuals. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. in Capitalvania. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. In 2021 you would think a company would understand MIM metallurgy. If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. . In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. 1:07. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation. The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. Really? Whether or not the suits have merit. SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. . Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. No you haters are not smarter than the US military, who tested the P320 far more than your favorite YouTuber ever did. Frankly, I think that ship is the best looking sci-fi ship design ever, with the Excelsior a very close second. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. But now, P320 is the subject. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. That being the case, the 320 is a cocked and locked striker-fired gun; However, it only has two safeties, unlike, say, a 1911, which has four: An inertial firing pin, a positive firing-pin locking safety, a manual sear-locking/blocking safety, and a trigger-bar-blocking grip safety. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. ALL OF THEM. The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. The P320 pistol is a dog. The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. But breaking news here, skippy. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . Many gun makers have had issues with drop firing, unintended discharge, bad safeties This is a resource I compiled of semi-auto pistols that have been recalled or Upgraded for Safety related problems like Drop Firing, Safeties that Malfunction, Risk of Accidental Discharge, etc. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. But this time, the sound bites used were different. The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of . Time will tell if no. This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. First off, no joke on me. And the idea some random comment section P320 hater thinks theyre smarter & more knowledgeable than the Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard and Marine Corp combined regarding military pistol selection is just freaking laughable! Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Look a fanboy. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. If this were a car, a phone, a refrigerator, it would have been recalled long ago. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, Simply put, the P320 is not safe and the lawsuits arent frivolous. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. (a) A person commits an offense if the person recklessly discharges a firearm inside the corporate limits of a municipality having a population of 100,000 or more. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. Profits over reliability and you end up with junk. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. Kyle . Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. These officers are not gunfighters. Slowly people are realizing they arent the only ones having issues. I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. I agree. Were not the only ones who have noticed the lawsuits. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. Sig can burn for all I care. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. You have entered an incorrect email address! . SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. That could happen easily. A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. I carry one in my front pocket routinely. And thats just my opinion. The problem with Sig is with their polymer pistols. Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? And on the flip side of the coin is the decades of denial by Remington on the 700 which Ive seen firsthand. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. Before the madness SIGS were expensive. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. . Sig P320 discharge while holstered. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. Plastic crap! To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. Thats SIGs term for a recall. Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. On Thursday, M.D. The incidents occur outside the forbidden zone, as we disarm before we enter so we stay in assiduous compliance with their nonsensical requirement. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? This is the only post fix tale of p320 failure I have heard that is not some form of but it just went off, I didnt do nutthin! It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. I have no idea. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. Sometimes you dont get what you pay for but now SIG has bragging rights. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. to docile, too subtle, to contextual. The thing is, youd probably need to generate many Gs of force in both directions simultaneously. An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. But that's not working in the P320, he said. The new guy sucks. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! My trust for Sig stopped after they produced the beloved Sig556xi Russian. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. The second version emphasized the upgrade to fix the drop safety issue and notes that Harrison believes that problem has been fixed. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. Was it his fault? If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. Where is that defect now? They habitually use their customers as the product testers by selling what are essentially prototypes while quietly implementing rolling revisions. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. Canadian soldier. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. They didnt have to, but did. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. Folks disagree on brands. But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. Yes, conspiracy to defraud is a thing when ones @ss is on the line. But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? The Glock fails on both counts. And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP.